Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Confessions from the Home Office. And today I'm excited. I have Laura Hiller with us. She is an attorney down in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, but she's originally from Greenville. And we're going to talk today about her career as an attorney and some other things that she has done that I think are pretty cool. And wanted you to hear all about that because she practices in criminal defense. So she has a really exciting week every week, I think. So welcome. Laura, thank you for being here.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Wendy. I appreciate it.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: So tell us the story on how you became a criminal defense attorney.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Well, I guess it starts with how I ended up going to law school in the first place. So I was in school at Clemson, majoring in English. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do or be when I grew up. But I had heard about this political science class on constitutional law that Professor Lasser was teaching. And everyone said it's really, really hard class, but it's like the best class I ever took. I learned so much. It was amazing. And so of course, hearing it was a hard class and that, you know, it was all of those things, I had to do it. So I signed up, took the two, it's series of classes, two classes with Lasser, one back to back each semester and learned that that was indeed the hardest thing I had ever done. I didn't understand anything when I started that class about the law. I learned how, what is the difference between a statue and a statute?
And then like learned that what I really, I was fascinated by, by constitutional law. And that is what encouraged me to go through the process of applying and going to law school. I got to law school and I found that a lot of people were on this track to become these civil attorneys who worked in offices and build many, many, many hours every week. And, you know, their world was wrapped up in document review and, you know, this whole thing. And I realized I've made a terrible mistake. I was interested in constitutional law and like learning how to help people through it. And what I ended up in was like this very different version of business school that I just, like, I didn't understand what this was and I didn't like it. And I saw all the people trying to get these internships at these, these fancy law firms. I'm like, I just don't even belong there. Like, it doesn't, it's, my heart doesn't belong there. And my, the summer I was starting to feel really depressed about a year and A half in, because it was about time for me to figure out what fancy law firm I was going to try to apply to and work at. And a group from the public defender's office came in, and they were looking for attorneys for Externships. Basically, like, you're getting school credit, but you go in in the summer and you work in their office. And from the minute they came into the room and started talking, I realized I had found my people, like, these people had the same interests I did. They cared about people. They were there to make people's lives better and to seek justice and mercy and things that I thought I wanted to do. And they were talking, you know, constitutional amendments, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the things that I thought I was interested in from going to. Through Dr. Lasser's class. So for me, it just. It was an immediate fit. I went that summer.
I loved it. Of course, I learned a whole lot. I spent a lot of my summer sitting in a death penalty trial. And then I spent the other part of my summer in the jail, like, meeting many, many people who were charged with everything from, like, a little bit of weed to, you know, murder, all kinds of stuff. And I learned so much, and I learned that that's what I wanted to do. So from that point on, I knew I was going to be in criminal defense. I thought I would be a public defender, because that seemed like the way you could guarantee that all of your work was criminal defense.
But the world had other plans for me, and I applied, of course, to every public defender's office as I got out of law school.
This one lawyer, Bobby Frederick, he was looking for an associate, and he said, I want somebody that only wants to do criminal defense. That's all I do. You'll never do a civil case working for me. Apply if you're interested. And of course I was interested, and that was the job I got. It was a perfect fit. And so from working from him and then going out and practicing on my own, joining up with my husband, him being my partner, and through the path of me getting to work with Lacey Thompson now at Thompson and Hiller, Criminal Defense has been all I've done, and I've loved it. It's certainly where I belong in the world.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: So you've done some other things besides just be a lawyer. Do you want to talk about that?
[00:05:13] Speaker B: So my husband and I, we started practicing together in 2011 down at the beach, because that's where I got my first job. And then he got his first job in Horry county. Too, which was wonderful. That doesn't happen to every young two attorney couple. Like someone's usually working in one part of the state, one in the other. So we were happ. But then once we started practicing together, we started to get maybe homesick is the word. Like we wanted to go back to the upstate. He was a cyclist and loved to be on the road, like, like all the mountain climbing and stuff.
And we were missing Greenville. Like we had family up there. And we. Greenville was growing at that time really a lot. And so we decided if we're going to be practicing together, we can do it anywhere. And so we had an office at the beach and then we had an office in, in Greenville. And after we were getting more established in Greenville, we were living up in the Traveler's Rest area.
Cute little house in, just outside of downtown. We're in Travelers Rest City. And there was this bed and breakfast that had a for sale sign out front. And we were like, I wonder what that's about. We're like, we, we can't do that. Like we, we were running a business and we were busy and we're like, no, let's just call, let's just call and see. And we did. And that one thing led to another. We ended up running a bed and breakfast for a year. We thought what we were going to do was do like have the two businesses side by side, the criminal defense and that, and maybe start adding some sort of like probate and real estate kind of work as well to kind of get away from the courtroom a little bit. And we were really excited about it and went all gung ho, learned, you know, how to make breakfast. For a group from two to like, I think our biggest group was about 52. It was crazy and it was a lot of fun. And I would be making, getting up first thing in the morning, making breakfast. Then I would clean up everything and I'd be on my phone talking to criminal defense clients. Have court that afternoon. I mean it was insane. I'd be doing books at any time of day. I mean, it was crazy running the businesses. And my husband, he's great hands on. And so at the bed and breakfast, he was the one out there, you know, doing yard work, like all this stuff. So he is outside doing like work work. I'm inside with like the law firm phone, my personal phone and the, the bed and breakfast phone all lined up in front of me on the computer doing who knows what at any moment, trying to figure out how I was going to answer it when the phone Rang. I mean, it was a wild year.
And we were all set to keep going with that until another opportunity presented itself back at the beach. And we said, well, I guess we're gonna try that. And we sold the bed and breakfast back to the folks that we bought it from. But it was an adventure. It was kind of a, like a long term dream. Like, we thought maybe when we retired we would run a bed and breakfast. But I'll tell you, that's not a job for the, for the weak or the young.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: You'd have endurance, strength, ye hard.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: I. I think we worked about 16 hours a day when we were doing that. And I'd get like 30,000 steps on my watch, like every weekend.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: That's wild. I mean, that you were able to keep the practice going, keep a bed and breakfast going. And those are like the two. It's all about people. All of it's about people, but just so different. That's wild.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: You know, running the bed and breakfast, like, when I would have to, like, get into a dispute with a credit card company or I'd have a client that wasn't happy. Like, it felt so easy because I'm so used to dealing with like, this person who is about to lose their life. You know, they're about to be incarcerated for some period of time or, you know, they're about to lose all their ability to work or whatever it is due to these criminal charges that when. That I would have the bed and breakfast problems, I'm like, I can fix this. Like, I was never stressed about it. It made it, like, not so bad because I'm like, this, this problem I can handle. I can get you more heat. I can get you, you know, ac whatever it is that's missing that's easy fix. These other problems are harder.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: So who knew that a bed and breakfast owner really needed to be an attorney too? You know what I mean? How perfect.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: It was a lot of fun. I am not sorry we did it and I am not sorry we sold it.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: Check that off. It was great while it lasted. Oh, my gosh. Well, let's. Let's talk a little more about criminal defense because I'm always fascinated with these cases. Been your most challenging case so far. And, you know, you sent me that.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Question ahead of time. And I have had, in the time I've thought about it, 50 different answers.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: I mean, I want to make sure you were prepared for that one.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: And that's the thing about that question. Like, I really think that I can't tell you that I've had one case in the last 16 years that was the hardest case I have. I can tell you about the hardest case I have right now. I could tell you about the hardest case I had, you know, 15 years years ago. But it's, there's.
Every case comes with its challenges. Some cases are very like, you've seen it before. You know exactly how to get the client the result that they need. You know, it's going to be fairly cut and dry. And then there's all the other cases and they all come with different challenges. Some cases, like I have a case right now where I believe the, the bread and butter legal work that's going to go into that case is not going to be incredibly difficult. But the challenge has been with his bond because he has, he has exceptions like he doesn't fit into the normal place of a person that would get a bond. Like he's entitled to a bond. There's a bond that's been set, but he can't fit the requirements to get out because of what's going on in his personal life. And so it's been a whole challenge to figure out, well, how can I get a judge to make an exception that's appropriate? How can we rest assure that, you know, society is still protected? Like, there's no, like the reason we have provisions of a bond are, you know, to make sure society is safe. So how do we, how do we make everything work together so that this person has the same rights that everybody else has? Because there's no reason he shouldn't be on bond. He's not an unnecessary flight risk, he's not an unnecessary danger to the community. He just can't check some of the boxes that other people could. So it's been so far about a three week project of trying to figure out what we can do and how to think outside the box to get this guy a bond once we get him out and he is able to go back to work and do things to contribute to society. His criminal case, like that part, it will resolve itself. But the entire challenge has been trying to figure out how to make a case that doesn't fit into the boxes work. And we do a lot of that. It's a lot of thinking outside of the box for this client because there's some reason that they are different from everyone else. And to find them justice, to find them the right results, we have to do something different. I would say the other real challenge that our firm is dealing with right now is with these cases with young men who have Gotten caught up in an Internet sting where a police officer is pretending to be an underage, like 15 year old girl. And I've got these young men who are like 19, 18 years old, which technically it is illegal for them to be trying to get into any kind of relationship with these, you know, fake young women. But they have, they have intellectual disabilities, they may be autistic. There are other things, and there's a lot of ways that those young men are much more like a 15 year old than they are an 18 year old. And when there's someone online giving them attention and saying, hey, I want to hang out, I want to do stuff, even though these people can never, like, they don't even have a driver's license, they could never follow through with the things they're saying online, they're technically committing a really serious crime, but it doesn't really fit that box. Like these, these young men are not child molesters. They're not young men who are out there. They're not predators in the sense, in a way, they're actually being preyed on by our system because the, the way their minds work, they think these people are asking for this and they don't know better. And what they need is education. And what they need is to learn what you can and can't do as a young man with, you know, this disability. And often once they learn the rules, they're very good at following them. So our firm has been working to get a new bill passed where there would be a diversion program for people who would fit into that position. Because right now there's nothing we can do when they technically are committing a crime and, you know, all the boxes are checked. From a legal perspective, this person is guilty, but they're not, you know, and that's just it. There needs to be another option for them because they aren't sex offenders. They don't need to go on the registry, they don't fit that world. And trying to find a new box to check, try to give options where this person isn't just, we're not saying, set them free, you know, no harm done, let it go, right? Let's find a program that helps change this so that they won't ever do this again, that they're making the right decisions and they'll never get back involved in a situation like, like that and give them a chance to have the very best life they can.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: So. Well, it sounds like, not that I would ever think that legal cases are straightforward because I know that there's never a, a B, C. But it sounds like you're having to do a lot more problem solving case by case. Like there's a lot of things you're having to do. It's not just forms and process hearings done, you know?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: No, no, it's not. There's. Every once in a while we have a case that is easy. You is what we need to do. And we do this and that and it's done and it's great. But most of the time we go into a case and it's case by case. We have to figure out what problems there are, how we can solve them. What's different about this case than another case. And give the state, the judges, everyone reasons why a certain result is appropriate for our clients.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: So how do you balance the emotional weight? I mean you're dealing with people so you get to know them. You, not that you become friends with them, but you have a professional relationship with them. How do you balance that while trying to keep your mental health? I mean, I know you're slammed with work and you've got all these things going on. How do you, how do you balance so it doesn't end up being all work, all the time?
[00:16:38] Speaker B: Work life balance is probably something attorneys struggle with. I mean there's a lot of careers that do or not special. Certainly one of the careers that work life balance is a problem. And in law school they actually teach you, you know, law is a jealous mistress. You're never, you're, your marriage isn't going to survive. Nothing is going to survive if you're going to be a good lawyer, which is crazy. Like they really. There is an old school idea that, you know, you should let the law be the jealous mistress she is and rule your life. I have seen in the time I've practiced a really important backlash to that rule where people are saying you can be a really good lawyer, but you can also take care of yourself and you can take care of your family and you can have more than just a legal career.
And that's what we are always striving to do is like both be there for our client, but also take time to spend with family to do things we want to do.
Mental health is key and mental health activities are key. Whether that's going to therapy because you need to talk to somebody about what you're dealing with or whether it's getting on a bike and sweating for an hour and a have or going to a yoga class or lifting weights or punching something, whatever it is, you've got to do it. And for different people, it's different things. But if you don't do that. For me, yoga is a huge part of my daily life and it's a huge part of, of me. And if I don't go a few times a week, more times the better. But a few times a week, I start to get where I don't sleep as well. I wake up in a panic. And I've just learned I need both physical exertion and that mental relaxation to be the best lawyer I can be. And it's not selfish. It's actually the very best thing I can do for my clients is to take that time for me so that my brain can recharge and I can figure out how to solve their problems.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Right, right. I mean, I feel it towards the end of the day, I feel like I'm just getting dull. My eyes aren't working as well, I can't think as well. And like you, you just got to step away and do something else.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: It's like you just get like you're, you're, you're at overload point, like.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: You have no more bandwidth. I think is what they say these days, there's just nothing left. And I try, when I look at my day, of course have a lot of emergencies that happen in any day, but I try to plan it out so that the big bandwidth things aren't all on one day. As much as possible, we spread that out so that, that we can have something left in the tank.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I know, I know it's hard.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: It doesn't always happen. It doesn't. And some days you're just shot. You can't even talk at the end.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: You just got to go to bed and start over. Yeah, I get it. So what do you think are the biggest misconceptions people have about criminal defense attorneys?
[00:19:44] Speaker B: So I would say, you know, people one the very. When they find out what I do, they say, I hope I never need you. And that's true. Right. Like nobody wants to need a criminal defense attorney. But I think it's this idea that we are out there being dirty, you know, like cheating the system, trying to, to know, get people off on technicalities. Let me tell you what a technicality usually is. It's our constitution, ok? Like there are rules and our laws. We are a land of laws and we have rules set up for a reason. And those laws are set up to protect the citizens from the power of the government. And a lot of what I'm doing from day to day is saying, hey, government, hold on Whoa. You can't just take him and lock him up for no reason. You've got to follow the rules. And sometimes they do. And, you know, sometimes my clients are guilty. I mean, that's just true. Like, sometimes it's a situation where it's all about the most mitigation we can get to help them get the best result possible. But ultimately there's. It's going to end in some sort of a guilty plate, but maybe not to the crime they were charged with, because maybe it was overcharged to be something less serious. But that misconception that we're out there, you know, just getting people who are guilty off, sometimes that happens. And sometimes that happens because the state really messed up. Like, they just didn't play by the rules. And when the state doesn't play by their rules, there has to be consequences for that. So sometimes a person who is technically guilty does walk away. And that's because the state didn't do it. Right? They just didn't. They cheated. And we don't want that to happen every day. Like, if the state feels that they can get away with stuff and there's no check to their, you know, check or balance on them, they will do stuff like that. They need, like, we're an important part of the system. We help make it work better. And I will tell you another misconception is people always think that, you know, like, my biggest, you know, enemies are prosecutors and.
And police officers. I have the greatest respect for so many prosecutors, so many police officers, and then there's a few out there that I don't. And I really feel like that that is something people don't understand. Like, I don't have to be their biggest enemy. It's not completely adversarial every day. In fact, it's not adversarial every day. Yes, it's an adversarial system. But a lot of times what I'm trying to do is get them on my side. Like, you come over here and see all these good things about my client, John Smith, you know, like, he is not the guy that the police are saying he is. And here's why this is a better solution. It's not always just standing up and just fighting. There's a lot of working together and getting people to come together to the right result as well.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: So being an advocate and being a relationship builder.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: People may not think that. Think about that, but that's probably a lot of your day.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: So has technology changed anything with being a criminal defense attorney? As things have changed as technologies progressed.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: So when I was in law school, the old school lawyers were looking up case law still in this big set of books, like they, these big, you know, 50, 50 book or more sets that, and that's where you went to find the case law on whatever you had to look it up. It was, it was really, you know, archaic. And they taught us that because it was still such a thing when I went to school. Like how to go to the books and find the case. I am betting that they don't even teach how to use the books.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Dust off the books now.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah, because when I was in law school, I mean I'm not so old that like we didn't have like all of that available online. They just taught us both because they thought right at that point.
Now I would say if you need to look up a case, you know, it is available on the Internet. There are services you can pay for, for legal research that are great. Our state offers a free one that's really good.
And there's this other thing called Google out there and with knowledge of what you're looking for and what matters, even Google is like an amazing resource. That really wasn't what it was when I started. You know, like you can learn things. You're like, oh, hey, AI is huge. Now I, and I'll tell you, I feel a little bit behind the times on it. I mean, I know it's out there and people are using chat, GPT and different AI resources for their practice and we're just barely tipping, dipping our toes into that.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: I mean, there's this part of you that like doesn't want to be lazy or let the, you know, let AI do your work for you. But at the same time I, I really feel we're headed into a world where there's going to be lawyers who use AI and then the ones who are left behind. Like I do think we have to go into that and learn what part of it is good and we can use and what part of it you don't touch because you know, it's giving people seven fingers on their hands or whatever it is that it's wrong. I mean, but there is value to it. And learning that I think is our next big technology, like challenge and adventure is figuring out how that comes into our day to day practice.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Well, and AI is not going away. I mean, probably 10 years ago I was working with a client and they were working with unmanned aircraft drones and test sites and everybody was, oh no to drones, no drones. I'm like Drones are here. They're not going away. So you can either learn about them or be behind. Same thing with AI.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree, I agree. Like, if you don't learn it and you don't do what's, what's happening, you're, you're left behind.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Right. So what advice do you have to lawyers wanting to start their own practice or own practice and maybe they're working on another business too, kind of like what you did with the bed and breakfast.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: So my advice in starting your own practice is work for somebody first. And the smaller the firm you're in, the better. A small firm where you get to learn what's going on. I was so, so very lucky when I started that the attorney I was working for immediately like sucked me into everything about the practice. I learned how to do the paralegal job, I learned how to balance the books. I learned how to pay the bills. I learned what the bills are. You know, like, he let me in because he wanted help with it all, but by being able to help him, I was able to learn exactly what I wanted, like how to do it. And you know, some things you learn by example. This is great. And I want to do it just like this attorney's doing it. And some things you learn by that is not the best way for me to run my business. And I've seen that. And I know I'm going to do that just a little bit differently because it's going to be better for how I practice and who I am. So I would say definitely work for somebody and get as involved in the day to day how the business is running as they will let you get, because that will help you see how to do it yourself. Either by example or counter example, either one. But it will, it will teach you what you need to know. If that's not an option, I wish I had taken business classes. I did not. I was an English major and then I went to law school and I, I did not take any accounting classes. I didn't know any of that stuff. And learning how to use QuickBooks and all of that has been an on the job process for me.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: And I would say if I could go back to better prepare myself for what I do, I would have a minor in accounting. Even though I'm terrible at books, I would have done something like that because it would have given me skills that, that I've had to work very hard to pick up. So I would say that would be huge. As much business experience as you can get, whatever that is. I Mean, another part of running a law firm is being a manager of people. So any kind of management work you can get is helpful, too. Like, if you're in school and you think you're going to eventually run a law firm, be a manager at the restaurant you're working at, do whatever it takes so that you're learning how to manage people, how to do it right, how people respond to different types of management, or if you can't actually manage, watch that stuff, pay attention to it, watch people do it right, watch how people do it wrong so that you can learn and do that better. Like, because I feel like those are the things that law school just doesn't prepare you for in any way. And those are the things that make your business really work. The law part, that part's going to come. Whatever kind of law you're going to do, you're learning some of it in law school and you're going to learn a lot of it after you get out. But really, it's the business stuff that, that trips people up all the time. So get as much experience as you can in that whatever world.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Well, you're billing so much, I mean, with every case and tracking your time and all that. I mean, I can see how accounting would be a huge help.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: And there's different kinds of law firms as far as that goes. Our firm, we don't do billable hours. We charge folks a flat rate and we do keep track of hours because that's important to know how much time we're putting into their case and all of that. But it's not. We aren't billing them by the hour. We bill a fee, we charge a fee, and then that fee, if, you know, we get the case resolved very quickly. We, you know, our billable hour is fantastic, but more likely the case takes longer than we thought it was going to. But we don't go back to the client to get any extra money because it's a flat fee and it covers representation. However long that process takes through whatever hours it requires out of us to get to the end of their case, whatever that is, a dismissal, trial, a plea, whatever the result, to get through that, that one fee carries them, carries us all the way through. Other firms are billing by the hour, and that is very complicated.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: I can't explain it.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Right, right, exactly, exactly. So tell everybody how to get in touch with you.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: If they need you, you can reach out to us. My email address is L. Hiller, grand strand law.com or give us a call. The number Here at The beach is 843-444-6122. We take criminal defense cases statewide. We take magistrate and traffic stuff in the Myrtle Beach, Beach, Georgetown area and then up in the greater Midlands area. So I would be happy to talk to anybody about any kind of criminal issue, whether it's a traffic ticket or you think you might be charged with murder. We'll help you with anything either end or anything in between.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: I'm only laughing because I saw my son yesterday, and he and about 15 friends are headed to Myrtle beach soon. And I gave him your contact information. I said, you better not need to call her, but at least we know there's somebody there if you do. You just kind of looked at me and I'm like. Like, I'm serious. So I'm glad I know you.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: You need my card in your wallet, and hopefully you never have.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Right? I should have gotten a stack and just passed them out. So he better not call you. But anyway. Well, good. Well, thank you so much. I mean, I've learned a lot. I've heard a lot from you, and you've. You've taught me a lot about criminal defense already, but this was good. And I really enjoyed hearing about the bed and breakfast. Breakfast. That's.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: It was like the ultimate juggling.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: It really was. It really was.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Well, that's it for this episode of Confessions in the Home Office. And I'll put all of Laura's contact information in the show notes in case you or someone you know needs her in the Myrtle beach area. And we'll be back next week. Thank.
