Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hi, and welcome to Confessions from the Home Office. My name is Wendy Hill, and for Almost the past 20 years, I've been running my marketing consulting firm, Market Momentum, out of my house in Greenville, South Carolina. So each week I record an episode either about a marketing topic or I have a guest on to talk about another business where someone may be a business owner or they work out of their house or they've made a transition. And we have a great discussion about that. So I am ready to introduce our guest for this week.
So today we have a guest that I've known. I was thinking about it the other day, I think five, maybe six years now. It's kind of crazy. This is Lauren Ward, and she is an attorney in Spartanburg, South Carolina. So she's about 45 minutes from me. She is managing member and an owner of a law firm called a business law firm. So welcome, Lauren. I'm glad you're here.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Thank you for having me today.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So I've known Lauren through business relationships, and she's helped me with a few things legally. Lauren, I want you to tell everybody about yourself, kind of how you got into being a lawyer, because I know your background was not law when you went through school originally and kind of how you got to where you are now.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: So originally I was about. Well, I'm a biology chemistry major from USC Columbia, and I thought I was going to go to, like, med school, those type things.
Realized that I'm not fond of germs and sick people and kids sneezing and throwing up on me. So I decided to look at different career paths. And I really saw law as an option where I could do a lot of different things. So ended up taking the LSAT on a whim, going to law school. And while in law school, I kind of learned different areas of law. And then I knew I liked the business and estate world. So I spent some time, like in the summers with different attorneys in those type areas of law. Then I graduated and I clerked for a circuit court judge here in Spartanburg. And it was a great experience, but definitely made me realize I have no desire to do criminal law or anything like that. Kind of made me decide I really wanted to do the civil and estate planning work and ended up being at a law firm with another girl. I'm Chelsea Reichard and Thomas Valencia. And Thomas retired back in 2022. So now me and Chelsea own the practice together. And I do mostly estate planning and transactional business work and some probate work. And Chelsea does the litigation part of it. So we complement each other very well.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it seems to really work out. I know a lot of times you have to talk to each other about your cases because one kind of blends into the other's practice area.
So a lot of people put off estate planning. And I guess that maybe it's like you don't want to plan your funeral. You don't want to plan for when you're not going to be here. But talk about. And I know a lot of people know this, but sometimes I need to hear it again. What are some of the risk or consequences for not having an estate plan?
[00:03:23] Speaker B: One of the biggest things I've seen is so married couples automatically think that the surviving spouse is going to get everything. They don't think they have to have a will to say that. But in South Carolina, and this is probably most states follow this. I can't tell you since I'm only licensed here. But in South Carolina, under the Uniform Probate Code, if you don't have a will, they've made a will for you. And half actually goes to spouse, half actually goes to children. So realistically, where you think your spouse could be getting your whole estate, your children, and I have seen that become really messy areas when there's maybe an estranged child or you're a blended family and there's different children coming in.
It's also been issues when you have children who have special needs and disabilities, where they're receiving SSI and Medicaid. It has made a huge difference when you don't have an estate plan. And I think, you know, most, you know, married couples with kids are like, I don't need anything. We bank together. It'll all be fine. No, you need a will, so it goes to you and not your children.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Okay. No, I mean, that makes sense. I think a lot of people just assume everything will work out, and, you know, then it doesn't. So can you give us two examples? Like, one where someone planned their estate and it worked out really well, like maybe they really dodged a bullet. And then another example where someone didn't plan and it was kind of a disaster. I know you can't tell names or anything like that, but just kind of a general situation.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: I had a situation with a client who had terminal cancer, so we knew we had to get stuff done quicker just due to her situation. But we got it all moved into a trust, which made things a lot easier. The only little mishap, I think, was cars she planned on selling, so we hadn't done anything with it. And she Ended up not selling it. So it had to go through probate. But it was a situation where there were a lot of different heirs involved. And having to go through the probate court would have just been a struggle for her trustee or executor because it would have meant all these notifications, paperwork, lots of deadlines and everything. And the way we did it, it was easy. They got to sell the house pretty much, you know, about a month after she passed away. Because houses have a lot of expenses, insurance and taxes and all that. So the family wasn't having to figure out who was going to pay these things. They just sold the house, liquidated it, split the proceeds and it worked out really well. Right. I have another situation right now where a husband and wife did not do powers of attorney. And the wife, like a lot of people just thought, oh well, if something happens, I'm automatically going to be able to do stuff for him because I'm his wife. Well, the issues came up. There's no power of attorney and he is probably needing to go into an assisted living or nursing home. And she's. He has dementia and she's thinking, I'm going to sell the house.
But she can't sign his name for selling the house because she doesn't have his power of attorney. And while we can do a conservatorship and get it taken care of for, it just adds like an extra hiccup and stuff. Especially when she's already dealing with such a stressful time of dealing with a husband with dementia to have to go through a court proceeding.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think having to juggle somebody's health and all the legal stuff, I mean, it's nerve wracking enough. Even though I know you to come and sit and talk about legal things. I can't imagine having to deal with somebody's health crisis on top of it and all that stress at the same time.
Switching gears just a little bit, thinking about business owners, because a lot of business owners watch this podcast.
What happens if you don't have a plan for your business and you don't have that with meaning in your estate plan? So, you know, I may have an estate plan for myself if I don't have anything for my business, what kind of problems can that cause if something happens to me or I become incapacitated?
[00:07:43] Speaker B: So it's really important. Like a lot of people don't think about it, but like in a single member LLC or a corporation with just one shareholder, if something happens and you die and you don't have it set up in your operating agreement or bylaws are put in a trust.
Pretty much the business could be frozen for months during this probate process, and especially if it's a business that could be sold or continued. I know a lot of businesses that are, you know, sole proprietorship LLCs with single members, maybe they end when the person ends. So it's not a huge deal because it's just, we just got to clean out the bank account, file a final tax return type thing.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: But if it's one that could be sold because it has value, you have clients, customers, it could really put a damper on getting things sold quickly because you don't have anything in place. Is also an issue when you have maybe two or three business owners together. You got three members of an llc, three shareholders, one of you guys, you don't have a plan. Do you want to be in business with your business partner, spouse or children? Probably not.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So when you sit down with a client and you find out they own a business, do you automatically say, we're going to go ahead and plan for your business as well and how this works, or is that more of only if they ask type of thing?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Usually when I sit down with a client, I want to know their assets. And if they tell me they have a business, I like to know what type it is and if something were to happen for them, what the plans for that business is. So that way we can make sure that we've addressed it. And a lot of times they have to leave and maybe go talk to their partners and those type things to see kind of what everybody's plan is. So one group I had, we ended up talking and they ended up going to get like cross life insurance policies and doing buy sell agreements. And they never thought about it, but it was. They were all like in their 30s to 40s, so it was a good age group to do it. And it really makes a huge difference for them. So now their spouses don't have to worry. They'll get the money and everything will be easier.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: So I guess there's a lot of different options people can do.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Yes. And it really depends on the type business it is. And if you think if it's like, you know, rental properties or like real estate, which is not as complex as, like running a business. So like, you just, you know, your family can take that over pretty easy. That's a different conversation than, you know, I have my own, like, landscaping company where I have, you know, 12 different employees working for me, there's different considerations with the different businesses.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: So I'm thinking about. We always hear about wills and people will say, do you have a will? Or you, you know, from watching the news at. There's always something about wills or life insurance. What are the other pieces that people need to have in place besides just a will when they're working through an estate plan? Like if they want to have a comprehensive estate plan, what do they need to have besides a will?
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Definitely need to have powers of attorney. So that is a financial one to make financial decisions for you if you can't make them. And then a healthcare power of attorney is who's going to make health care decisions for you. You inside of that can have a living wheel which tells people if you want things like life support, feeding tubes and how you feel about organ donation, those are two documents that everybody, I think, needs. Whether you're 18 or 100, you need to have those. And then kind of, if you want the full comprehensive estate plan, we may look at doing a trust. So we can do things like avoid probate, make it easier for the heirs. And depending on where you are and what assets it is, probate is not terrible, but it can be a really hard and time consuming process for your family, especially when they're already grieving. Like a trust can just make it simpler.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Right now that makes sense.
And I know the other thing I was going to bring up is Lauren did healthcare and just regular, durable power of attorneys for both of my children when they turned 18. Because when they go off to school, you know, even if you're striking the check to pay their tuition, unless you have these documents, the school or hospitals or anything really can't talk to you because they're adults. Have you been doing those for a lot of people?
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So when a lot of people have been turning 18, like going off to college, like I have had a decent amount come in and want to do that. Because when you're 18, you're still probably nervous. You don't want to have to go talk to like the, you know, registrar or figure out your money situation and then you still don't want to call to make your own doctor's appointments. So, like having those powers of attorney allows mom or dad or aunt, uncle, whoever to step in and help you with that.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: No, I think it's been good. I mean, they have copies, I have copies, and they know it's all handled. And I think it was kind of peace of mind because I got a little nervous when Austin off went off to school. I thought this is not going to be good. If some, something were to happen and I couldn't talk to somebody, you know.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: He got sick and you couldn't go like, maybe he got mono or something that took him out for weeks and you needed to have him medically unenrolled in school for this semester. They could not do that talking to you, but now they could.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Right? Right. So what's some of the most, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that clients have or prospects when they come into your office and have a consultation about estate planning that you hear kind of over and over again? And what do you tell them to kind of, to educate them about it?
[00:13:23] Speaker B: I think one of the biggest things is, oh, you have to be like a millionaire to have a trust. Like you have to have a ton of assets. And I don't think that's the case. I think having a trust is just, do you want to make it, you know, avoid probate for your family easier, quicker. You don't have to have, you know, millions of dollars. Some people can use a trust just to have maybe real estate and some accounts go outside of probate just so when something happens to them, there's no waiting period. The kids can go ahead and sell it or take over it and manage things. I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions is, oh, I have to be super rich to have a trust.
I think one of the other misconceptions is when we're thinking about nursing home level care, people think, oh, I can just give all my assets away, like right before going to the nursing home, the government will pay for it. But that is not how it works. We have a five year look back period. So we really have to think about if you're worried about, you know, you're in your 70s and you're worried about nursing home level care, you know, in the next 10 years, we can't wait till you need it to really start planning to get the best benefits. We have to do that while years in advance while you're still healthy. Which I think people struggle with that because you're giving away control of your assets. You're, you know, doing things differently. But we have to weigh the pros and cons of do we want to have nursing home level care paid for or we want to keep these assets in our names? I think those are some big things.
And I think the biggest thing, like we talked about at the start, is people think, oh, I'm their married, I'm their Spouse, I get it all. And Right. That's not it.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: So do you feel like that people should come in when they first meet with you and then they need to keep checking in with you over the, you know, maybe every year, every couple of years. Because you're talking about this five year look back, you're talking about how to deal with a business, maybe blended families, people getting remarried. So what, what do you think's the best so people aren't all of a sudden caught with like a major issue.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: I think if you're a business owner, I recommend checking in with us every year just to make sure like, you know, things change with the business. You could be, you know, two years ago thinking, oh, I don't want to retire, I'm not ready to sell. And you know, you just decide, I'm not ready, I want to be done. I want to enjoy life. So I think business owners probably check in every year for non business owners, I say every three to five years if there is a change in life. So if there's a marriage, divorce, birth, death, those are usually all things. Where we want to look at our estate plan another time we want to look at it is, I know we've all seen this on the news and none of us know what exactly is going to happen, but in 2026 we get probably a drop back of our tax. So right now the estate and gift tax is super high for a couple. I mean, with a couple we're looking at, I think it's $26 million. So most of us do not have to worry about taxes on our estate. And I think that's a misconception too, is there's going to be a ton of taxes. No, in South Carolina we don't have it as a state and federally it's so high. But in 2026, it's going to drop back down to probably about 7 million an individual, 14 million a couple. So while that's still a ton of money and most of us still aren't hitting that, there are people that are going to be closer to that are people that are maybe younger now and in the future as they grow their wealth, they're going to be at that level. So we may need to. Right now I don't have many clients that need to do much tax planning, but in the next, you know, a few years with the way the exemption is changing and I will say it will be all over the news, what happens. It doesn't matter what news you watch, you are going to see it everywhere and none of us can predict what Congress is going to do with that. So that's one thing is I know a lot of people don't like to watch the news, but if you do see something and we will send out blasts and stuff to say, hey, we might need to actually revamp your plan because you may have a taxable estate now.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: Okay, okay.
No, I think all that, that's good. And one thing, and this is not really related to estate, but kind of is the BOI filings.
I know Chelsea's talked about that some on some short videos that you've done. Can you talk about that? Because the deadline's approaching and some people may not even realize they need to do this.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Pretty much almost anybody that has an LLC or corporation has to do like S Corp has to do this beneficial ownership interest filing. There are certain entities that are exempt, like the banking industry. And it's really those industries that are so highly regulated anyways. But if you don't do this, it's really simple to do.
It is a form. You just feel like you can do it online. But if you don't do it, there is a huge penalty. It is 500 a day and if you are an existing entity before 2024, you have till January 1, 2025 to get it in. So we're, you know, two months away at this point. I mean we're getting into the holiday season. Every get busy, people will forget about it. So realistically, if you're a business owner, now is the time to do that beneficial ownership interest because the fees are just exponential if you don't get it done.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: So you're going to do like walk in appointments for that soon, aren't you? Are you ready to talk about the dates for that or do you want to wait?
[00:19:06] Speaker B: Let me pull my calendar.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Well, and I can always just add it to the show notes if you don't have it in front of you right now.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, you can add it to the notes. But yeah, we are going to do two walk in days for business owners to come in and help them do their beneficial ownership interest.
But make sure when you're coming in you have all your business stuff together, like knowing who owns the company, how many shares each person owns, that type stuff. But we are going to be there.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: To help people and I think with the ein you have to have that also. Once I got in a groove doing all of mine, it didn't take that long, but it was a little scary at first trying to figure it out. So last question, and this wasn't we hadn't really talked about this.
Do you like being an owner of a law firm? Like, what are the things that you really like about it?
[00:19:53] Speaker B: I like the freedom of running my own business.
I like being able to. I am a mom of two, so I like being able to go to their like soccer games or like we have like parties at school for like Halloween, Christmas. Like I can do those things and not have to stress.
But like any business owner, there's a lot of stress that is involved with it. Like if you're sick, you don't have paid sick leave, you're losing money. If you're sitting at home with the flu or Covid or stomach bug or whatever else, so you're miserable and losing money.
And it's a lot of. Being an attorney is hard and being a business owner is hard. So being both those together can be hard. But I like it a lot better than being told to sit at my desk and bill like 60 hours a week type stuff. I just, I like the flexibility. There's a lot of stress, but I like the flexibility and I like, I have a great team of people I work with. So work isn't. Is bad when you have people you enjoy coming to work every day with.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: It's a good vibe in your office. It's, it's laid back, professional, I'll definitely say that. So that's good. Did you ever think you would own your own firm or did you not really know?
[00:21:08] Speaker B: I never really in law school, I never really thought about owning my own firm. And I will tell you, it's the same thing as like doctors, dentists, accountants. Nobody tells you how to run your own business in like grad school, right? They're just like, here's the case law. This is how you know to read a case. But so it is a lot of growing pains when you come out and have your own business. So it's nice that I do have a partner to share a lot of those trials and burdens with and we can help each other out.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Well, good, good, good. Well, you have given us a ton of information today and I will add the information in the show notes about the two days for anybody local who needs help with their BOI filing. I don't feel like there's been enough publicity about it out there at all.
You guys have put some things out, but I really haven't seen much about it. So I think people are going to realize that this is something they need to hurry up and finish well.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: And that's one area that There has been a lot of discourse between attorneys and accountants, like, who should help people with this, who's responsible? And kind of both sides have said, no, you should do it. And it's been a lot of back and forth on where people even need to go to get this help.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Right, right. Well, if you have any estate needs, definitely give Lauren a call or shoot her an email at a business law firm in Spartanburg. She's always been very helpful to me and our whole family. She's done all of our estate planning, and it's been fantastic, and so I'm glad you were here. And anything else you want to add or are you good?
[00:22:45] Speaker B: No, thank you for having me. And I guess just a plug for myself is if you have interest in lawyer and business life. I have a podcast with my longtime friend Lacey, and we talk about law, mom, business, kind of pop culture, everything. And we'd love to have you watch us, too.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: I'll put that in the show notes as well so people get to it. Great. All right, well, that's it for another episode of Confessions in the Home Office, and I will see everybody next week. Thanks.
